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August 25th, 2009
08:49 AM ET
Should the government launch an investigation into CIA interrogation abuses?
A new government report says CIA interrogators used an electric drill and a gun to scare an Al Qaeda prisoner into talking. Sources familiar with the report tell us the interrogations took place in the CIA's secret prisons before they were closed in 2006. We are asking you if the government should launch an investigation possibly leading to criminal charges. Email me your comments! They could be read during the 10am Eastern hour of CNN Newsroom.
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Bottom to TOP! JAIL THE CRIMINALS, especially the ones who committed perjury and masterminded this dark moment in America!
Unless laws in this country are applied differently to different people, yes they absolutely should. If CIA interrogators broke the law, they should be charged as such.
YES. If laws were broken, we need to find out by whom, ordered by whom. That means going all the way to the top, as rickydee1955 says, if necessary. Charge all those involved, whether directly or indirectly.
No they need to prosecuted for releasing still dangerous information that could cause us to loose more troops and start a trend of traitors to pass on top secret information to our enemy's the president is being reckless with our national security and im shure he has already been told this by his generals.
No they need to be prosecuted for releasing still dangerous information that could cause us to loose more troops and start a trend of traitors to pass on top secret information to our enemy's the president is being reckless with our national security and im shure he has already been told this by his generals.
Absolutely! If crimes were committed they must be investigated and prosecuted. We still live in a democracy!
All's fair in love and war , right ? I doubt " the other guys " completely
abide by the rules .
YES! If the people don't have any interest in holding the government accountable for unlawful or immoral action, then the concept of America has failed.
terror suspects are suspects for a reason and any means should be used to extract info that will protect America. leave the CIA to focus on their job and the rest of us can focus on ours
It's very simple- we as a nation, trying to spread democracy through example and claiming "moral superiority" cannot torture anyone in any form or fashion regardless of the outcome be it deceptive or truthful.
this is scary it remind me of afician amicans slavery all over again
Absolutely NOT... countering terrorism requires extreme measures... and, some of those measures the public doesn't want to (or should) know about... the CIA is necessary.... their tactics should be designed to put fear into the hearts of those wishing to do harm to this great Nation...
Let the CIA do their job!
Definetly not!
If we are not at war with these terrorists, then lets get out of the middle east.
If we are, lets act like it and not punish the ones trying to do everything in their power to protect us.
No. New policies have been established ... let's move on and leave this alone. We need to stay strong in the eyes of other countries.
Criminal charges? For what? Protecting our country and our citizens? The key word is "scare". Let's remember we are dealing with people who would love to kill as many innocent American civilians as they possibly could. I say let the CIA do their job and protect us. Besides does Obama really want one more issue hanging over his administration right now? To push for criminal charges is a totally bad call on many fronts.
Charles
Naples, FL
No. Every minute of time, every ounce of energy, CIA analysts expend on digging up records, reviewing old files, defending themselves, worrying about their future, takes from the time and energy they would be focused on the current threat. AMerica needs to realize that if you want to investigate, fine, but there is a tremendous cost to it – our safety and security.
The government should launch an investigation, not only for the CIA interrogation abuses used against the Al Qaeda prisoner, but also for abusing the patriot act lounched to intimidate immigrants-legal or illegal.
They should launch a investigation no matter. Any such allegation should be taken serious. We should make sure that this is not a routine situation and make a determination. True or falsethis is a no brainer and should be better examined. I mean our infrastructure is always in need of regular maintenance.
These are not "interrogation abuses" they are acts of torture. The media seems intent to downplay the reality of what the Bush administration approved. We owe it to ourselves and the world to investigate such heinous behavior.
The rules of war have changed since 9/11. Terrorist are smarter faster, and increasingly unpredictable. we have to use whatever tools we have to stop them from waging a jihad on american soil. with that in mind, the rules of the geneva convention existed when we fought face to face, not for urban combat. We must do everything in our power to keep our enemies at bay. Do you think the taliban lost sleep over the people they kill on 9/11. No! They plotted again and again and again. We do need to investigate the CIA but at the same time we need to continue to let them do there jobs. They have foiled alot of terrorist plots and through their interrogation technique they have saved countless lives.
No , there are more important issues and anything should done behind closed doors.
If we want to regain integrity in our goverment, it is a must.
Call it what it is, TORTURE. Yes it must be investigated, by an independent investigator and not the government. All who broke the law must be prosecuted, from the lowliest thug to Bush and Chaney.
Hello Heidi, I really do not think there should be an investigation. Lets not forget the thousands of people that passed because of the terrorists attacks that these people committed. Oh yeah and the televised beheading of an American man that was seen by the entire world. Oh but some water to the face of a terrorist is just as bad, we should give that man a luxury suite and some champagne for his troubles.
No one's above the law. All involved in illegal and/or unconstitutional nefarious activivities should be brought to justice. Whatever their position in life.
Wouldn't decriminalization and heavy taxation of marijuna, ganbling and prositution help our financially troubled times ?
God bless America...
If the guidelines for punishment were broken, then it should have been done then!!! After a five year time period I say NO. Why do we publish all of this for the world to judge us. The world was not with us on the beheading of our news journalist and others. Now our troops can be tortured and they can say "you did it to our people".
Get real people these middle easterns hate us and there not going to stop trying to kill us its either kill or be killed and if we leave thats just going to help them regroup and grow stronger we must fight for our lives they want to promote Armagedin and there not going to stop.
No investigation.....it's just a witch hunt and a way to divert attention away from our country's real problems, aka the economy. jobs, securing the boarders. All the interrogators did was scare the Al Qaeda prisoners into confessing their plans to kill us. They did not hurt anyone physically like has happened to captured Americans...........cutting heads off, physical torture, etc. Get real, Al Qaeda is trying to kill us and destroy our country.
who cares , is war time, wake up America , better jet jail everyone , so all of us can fell good, what a pathetic country we are becoming , investigate , jail , punish all , disclose all , just dont complain when one American brave is capture ,
Yes, ofcourse they should. The CIA is no different than anybody else, and should be punished, just like anybody else.
A (death) threat is illegal in almost every country, ESPECIALLY the U.S. So unless different people get punished differently, which they are not, then they should absolutely, 100% look into this. Just because they are the CIA does not mean that they can get carried away with this.
What is it with people in power anyway?
If it was you in that situation what would you have done? I haven't seen or heard anything so far that would be considered touture. I was under the impression that everyone of our FBI members had to be waterboarded to be an FBI agent
Absolutely not. Do you really think if we ask terrorists nicely we will get answers? These people want to kill us. What goes on in interrogations should not be made know to the public. Is our current government for the terrorists? Maybe when the terrorist attack the families of the Democrats they will get tougher on terrorists.
I am pretty liberal these days and rarely agree with the Republicans but this issue with CIA interrogations needs to be dropped. What they did kept our country safe at the time and the guys they did it to were the worst of the worst. Our time and money would be best spent on current issues. Do we really want to do to them as they did with their continuous investigations during the Bill Clinton years.....
While I remember the way I felt in year or two after 9/11, scared that we could be attacked again and hoping the government was doing everything possible to avert another attack , America is a great country and getting down in the gutter and being a bully is not what we are about nor should we ever be so, yes if someone was stepping over the line and outright abusing prisoners then that has to be investigated I just hope that the investigation doesn't focus on the little people and determines who at the top was giving the orders.
No investigation should be launched! People, wake up! If you think that our methods of interrogation are too much, then go get yourself grabbed by the other side and see how "nicely" they interrogate you. Let me know how that works out for you! Remember, no attack has happend on this country since 9/11. It isn't because they decided we have had enough. It is due to diligent information gathering and our ears that are on the ground, not to mention our military who are standing on that line which you won't stand on. The people who should be investigated are those who want our secrets out so our enemies can come up with optional ways to bring the U.S. down.
No, it has been done once and that was enough. While we may threaten to kill their children, we never do. They kill their own sending them with bombs hooked to them to kill many children. While we may threaten with the sound of a drill and do nothing, they cut the heads off of Americans that they hold prisoners. Get real!
We should not waste our time investigating this issue. The terrorist(s) was/were treated as necessary to retrieve information needed to save American lives. It's alot better than they would treat one of ours if they were captured, so they should act like human beings if they want to be treated as such. Look at 9/11, did any of us shed a tear for the terrorists that died that day? I would think not! If we could have gotten ahold of even one of them before that tragic day, we might have been able to stop them. Who wouldn't want the CIA or anyone to use whatever means necessary to stop another attack like that, or any other attack on America? Why bother protecting their "rights" when they are trying to take our right to live?!
Leave these Operatives alone. They were doing a job after September 11th that most of you would have done without hesitation because of the malice we had in our hearts . Now that the maliceness and memories have faded for most of you these Operators are "bad" people. And by the way I am an African-American, Democrate and U.S. Air Force member.
This statement below says it best:
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". Orwell, George
How many people have to be terrorized before someone can be labeled a terrorist? If I were blind-folded and chained to a chair and some thug was coming at me with a power drill blazing I like anyone would be terrorized. Clearly the CIA has put the "terro" in "interrogators".
Yes, without a doubt they should be investigated, and all this talk of terrorist threats is jsut that. We have more threats against us after the fact than before, and that fault can be laid squarely at the feet of the Bush Administration. The young Afghani man that was just released after 7 years of unjust incarceration should now be watched for the bitterness and resentment he certainly feels towards the US. he may not be actively planning to move against the US in retaliation, but the Taliban, Al Queda and groups like them are certainly looking to recruit him now to prey on his time in our custody. For anyone to pretend the allegations coming out about excessive use of force and unnecessary "interrogation techniques (read torture)" are just democrat party stunts, is an excercise in obliviousness.
The difference is they didn't use the drill, they didn't shoot the prisoner, they didn't even shoot it in front of the prisoner? We watch this everyday on TV, and we are not offended. If this is tourture what do we consider the beatings, killings and rapes in our country's jails?
I believe the indignation of the ACLU and others would be better placed securing improvements in our own jail systems. Want to charge someone? Lets charge the administrators, wardens, Governors who preside over a penal system that we all know to be dangerous. If my choice was the threat of a nearby gun shot, or to be locked up with a criminal who would be allowed by the jails' officers to rape or kill me, I'll take the "torture" described in the report.
I have not served time, and I live a peaceful life in an average suburb, but I would be much more concerned about being sent to any American prison that ever becoming a target of enhanced interogation techniques.
It is stunningly irresponsible of AG Holder to create a new scandal based on a 5 year old report that has been reviewed, distributed and cleared through Congress, White House and DOJ's own career prosecutors.
I have often thought that the "CIA" has been an organization with too much "free-hand" in how they do business.
When a group of individuals start making their own rules, regardless of what they believe their cause, they need to be dragged back to reality.
Any individual responsble for their (CIA) deviations of law, directly or indirectly, needs to be held accountable and prosecuted, as the law requires.
If we are to remain a Nation of civil law, then No One can be above it.
As well, wars are fought by mankind, not animals, so to use war itself as an excuse for committing criminal acts is unethical and disingenuous in the least, and criminal otherwise. In other words, making the excuse is, itself, criminal. Excusing such behavior is a gross miscarriage of justice.
This investigation is incredibly important as a first step to proving to the world that the Bush Jr. Administration was a retarded fluke; not the norm of US policy making and procedure. We are fortiunate to now have someone in office that takes all of this into account rather than pushing it under the rug, and cherry picking info. A criminal act committed by anyone, at any time, for any reason, is still a criminal act, and should be prosecuted, and it is very telling that even Frances Townsend supports an honest and objective investigation... we will hold her to her word.
American laws only apply to soverign American soil. There are no grounds to apply law to anything the military or the CIA did over seas. I am happy my government protected my freedom and I have much respect for the men and women that lay it on the line for Americans. Why is it always Democrats that want to prosecute former administrations. That gives America a bad reputation with friends and allies.
NO! I am an AMERICAN and I SUPPORT THE CIA in its interrogation of terrorists. Obama is on a WITCH HUNT into the Bush Administration. AMERICANS NEED TO REMEMBER THE USS COLE, 17 SAILORS WERE KILLED. This was a SUICIDE ATTACK AGAINST THE USS COLE. The CIA is SCARING THESE INDIVIDUALS, NOT CUTTING THEIR THROATS! As I see it, this was an ATTACK ON AMERICA AS WELL. How should these people be interrogated? Should the CIA say, "please?" If the tables were turned and AMERICANS were being held as prisoners, we would probably be seeing them getting their THROATS CUT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. If Obama has his way, we will see him having a BEER AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THESE PEOPLE.
"The difference is they didn’t use the drill, they didn’t shoot the prisoner, they didn’t even shoot it in front of the prisoner?"
Terroristic threatening; class G felony; class A misdemeanor; penalties.
(a) A person is guilty of terroristic threatening when he or she commits any of the following:
(1) The person threatens to commit any crime likely to result in death or in serious injury to person or property; or
(2) The person makes a false statement or statements:
What part of that law don't you understand?
What a successful way of getting the attention off the health care reform, or should I say health insurance reform where the American Government is openly wanting to become competition for our free enterprise system. There is not really any health care reform, just insurance reform. Scary
Put the money we would waist on a investigation in to health care. Don't forget 9/11!
No, they should not run any investigation.
@ Marius Donnelly, (If I am allowed)
1. that we watch it on TV does not justify it, even if we have become more desensitized to it.
2. We call that torture as well, and it's a shame, as you say, that littel or nothing si doen about it.
3. There is no difference. Then again, you've never experienced it, and neither have I; so, your input on the matter is fairly moot as is mine.
I agree let's charge those wardens and so on, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we are not talking about wardens, ans stop erecting straw man arguements and red herrings.
I have sereved time, I have friends currently who have recently served time, and it is not the same. Inmates, by and large, are not given power tools un observed, unregulated, and unwatched by authority. Tango and Cash was just a movie.
It would be far more stunningly irresponsible of AG Holder NOT to assign an independant special prosecutor to readdress this issue based on a 5 year old report that has been reviewed, distributed and cleared through a republican Congress, under a republican White House and president and DOJ’s own career prosecutors, when there was never any intent shown to follow through with the investigation with any real intent of bringing any possible criminals to justice. To see that, all one need to is take into consideration the commutting of sentence and half baked investigation of Louis "scooter" Libby. A commutation he obviously didn't deserve. Being a part of the administration adds extra responsibility, not extra privilege, which is exactly what Libby got and exactly what you are advocating for anyone in the CIA guilty of a crime under the Bush Administration.
I couldn't care less if the CIA revved a power drill close to a blindfolded terrorist or fired a firearm in the room. Smoke and mirrors by the Obama machine. Get back to business & stop trying to force items down our throats that we don't need. It is always the liberal media that screams along with the left leaning ACLU on these issues. The CIA has been a pawn of Pelosi and other Dems since the Carter admin which turned the CIA into a laughing stock by the Soviets and terrorists trying to remove the US from the earth at all costs. We are the laughing stock of the world right now. Nobody wants anything to do with Obama, except Marxist leftist leaning countries like Venezuela and Cuba. This move will have negative impacts for years to come with our so called friendly countries who we work with on a daily basis. Nobody in the US will be considered trustworthy if this continues. Who exactly is running this White House? Certainly not Obama!!! Just another reason why Indies are losing patience and confidence in Congress and Obama land.
@Doug Williams, rights apply to everyone indiscriminantly. Period. That you, or anyone else, no matter what their status in life, would attempt to put themselves on a pedistal above any other human being goes against the very core fibers of the american being. The law, and common sense dictates equal protection; not equal contempt.
Heres an idea lets investigate the presidents birthcirtificate be cause his acts towards our war is unamerican.
and Mary is a perfect example of conservative republican paranoia
and Mike Armstrong of TX could be Mary's doppleganger.
I have a better idea lets stick to the topic. Lets not worry about a birth certificate or a military record that cannot be found.
Laws don't apply. Policy does apply. Why don't we pay back the auto dealers for the Clunker program before we spend millions on a special prosecutor who won't find any wrong doing. Get a clue. Maybe congress should waist more of their time investigating some other non important issue like steriod use. Give us a break.
Yes james and your a perfect example of whats going wrong with our country democratic stupidity.
Excuse me from straying from blog–didn't know how to sign on under another report–but related to the autopsy findings on Michael Jackson–am I continually missing this detail??? What is the standard dose of propofol given to patients before a procedure?
The ACLU promotes socialism and communism. One of their duties is to provide "DUE PROCESS OF THE LAW FOR ALL AMERICANS." The KEY WORDS HERE ARE "ALL AMERICANS." These terrorists are NOT AMERICANS. The ACLU needs to REMEMBER 9/11 AND THE USS COLE. The ACLU should be representing AMERICANS not TERRORISTS. I have to ask, WHY IS THE ACLU SUPPORTING TERRORISTS? The ACLU DOES NOT REPRESENT ME OR MY VIEWS. The ACLU also says that I CANNOT USE THE NAME OF JESUS OR THE NAME OF GOD, BUT I SAY TO THEM, GOD BLESS AMERICA and IN GOD I TRUST!
Maybe everyone should watch the first 20 min of Saving Private Ryan to be reminded of what war is really like. Hard to understand from your couch.
There should be prosecutions, yes. We can't just violate the Geneva conventions. Those conventions were set up to protect us as well. Torturing prisoners has made life more dangerous for us and our soldiers. But the investigation should focus higher: Rumsfeld and Cheney.
In a word – Yes!!! The law is the law, and the previous administration did everything they could to ignore the law. Time to pay the piper.
No, we need to leave the CIA alone and secretive, it's the only way they can do their jobs! If we tie their hands and say it's wrong, then we're just going to be letting other countries' spies and terrorists go around doing whatever they want, because they'll know America can't do anything back!
And Shelley is gettign Obama and Bush mixed up.
The drill and gunshot were good theater for a good cause. Scaring someone isn't "torture". Using the drill... now that's a different story.
I believe that the CIA needs to use the same tactics that the person they are interviewing would use on us. This is what they understand and if we persist in not using these tactics we are viewed and treated as weak.
I don't think that anything should be done. How is revving a power drill or faking the killing of a detainee breaking the law? Honestly, what laws were broken?
I really do not see the problem with tell a terrorist that you are going to kill his family if it is going to save lives. Do anyone think for a minute that at terrrorist would not hesitate to kill your family. At least it was just threats.
And to James in Kamiah, Idaho, if you would expand on your comment, I would like the opportunity to reply.
I think that the people who ordered the breaking of laws should pay the penalty.
The CIA should be investigated for prisoner abuses so it has a chance to clear its name and rather than being tried in the media. If wrongdoing is proved, then transgressors should be prosecuted. We would demand the same thing if other security agencies in other countries were accused of abuses. No one or no agency should be regarded as being above the law.
Absolutely, this would send a message no one is above the law so these operatives would be more careful in future not to make mockery of our values.
If the government starts to go after our own people in the CIA, what will that do the morale of those people who are protecting our security? I thought we were supposed to be fighting an enemy, not aiding and abetting it.
Our government cannot stop or bring an end to the CIA. Why investigate when we already know torture is concurrent in the methodology of the US. Declassified documents prove that prisoners have been tortured.
1. I can't say any of this "news" suprises me seeing as how I actually watched the first two seasons of 24. Art immitates life. Investigations ARE as brutal as they need to be, and I don't personally care how it gets done so long as it gets done.
2. I believe that the ends DO justify the means. If no one was permanently harmed (which it sounds like they weren't) then what are these people crying about? If you want to sue for wrongful imprisonment, do that. But leave the emotional drama at the door.
3. If the government is going to waste my tax dollars to esentially investigate itself, you might as well investigate every poilce precinct as well. It's interrogartion, not a fluff piece Q&A. People seem to forget that when lives are at stake you can't just ask someone "nicely" and hope they don't lie to you. If it was their family in danger, you would expect the people doing the investigation would press as hard as they can to get an answers for you.
It seems to me that going public about CIA activities defeats the whole purpose of the agency. This organization has always worked in the shadows with one goal...protect the United States and all Americans. What they do to accomplish that mission should remain in the shdows.
Scaring someone into giving up info is not torture. It may be a little or very "mean," but we're dealing with some very high stakes here. If you want to take this to an extreme, then the police should not tell suspects that they may have to spend long terms in prison in order to get them to give up info.
No. Please no. Not another fiasco in the eyes of the international community wherein we end up cannibalizing ourselves on the public stage for acts that were well justified in light of the alternative. Has anyone checked the tactics the enemy uses lately? They just flat out behead people. Come on America ; Wake-UP!
I think not. I believe that the terrorists have absolved themselves of all human rights the moment they killed or threatened to kill other human beings. At the rate our administration is going, we will end up punishing the punishers more than the terrorists themselves. I believe that, in order to win against the terrorists, we will need to break a few rules. I believe this because they don't have to follow any rules or use any morals what-so-ever and if we continue to be a constrained as we are, they will win.
Should Holder investigate? YES – and he would be denying his responsibilities if he did not. Regardless of party, the government and all agencies have an obligation to operate within the law – and so do government legal counsel.
And while Obama stated he wanted to look forwards not back, Bush DID LOOK BACK at Clinton's years and started legal proceedings! That should not influence Holder (and I am sure it did not) but let's not forget that the Republicans under Bush and Cheney started a great tradition – never allowed FACTS and TRUTH to pollute a great story ....
no. that's what terrorist deserve after all.
i think that if the gov start doing that the all others terrorist will
fell a little bit safe to do harms to the country again.
No. Interrogations are important in getting information. It has been used for years and this is just politics and the media is still trying to bury the Bush administration. Why didn't the media go after Acorn or even Bill Clinton and his affairs with such aggression?
I am not a politician, but I know head hunters and the media are head hunters. The public does NOT need to know what goes on in WAR and "What happens in protecting America."
hell yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I voted for President Obama and support most of his actions. However, I do not appreciate the fact that Obama is allowing his administration to investigate past incidents dealing with the CIA. I think the interrogation methods were humane and crucial to protecting the United States of America. Never thought I would say this but I agree with Dick Cheney on the vulnerability of our security after releasing such information. Wait, does this make me a Bluedog?
Definitely! Also, any AND ALL from the lowest to the highest should be prosecuted for violations of the law. The cry of "we were just following orders" was held to be invalid in the Nurenberg trials and other court cases.
We are not the KGB. This kind of behavior is reprehensible and is un-American at its core. We are made of better stuff. What next? Poison terrorist with radioactive isotopes in soup? We can't use the excuse of 9/11 as reason to become terrorist ourselves. We are in Afghanistan that is a step in the right direction. There is no conclusive evidence that any information gained through torture is credible. Instead of being that ideal city at the top of the mountain, or whatever the quote was that Reagan used. We're the shanty town down at the basin right next to all the others. China, Russia and the rest. We've lost our moral high-ground. Perhaps that was the greatest casualty in this age of terrorism.
Yes of course they should
With todays higher standards, and more "wisdom" and technology and just knowledge available – I'm sure these neanderthal tactics are far outdated.
Although we must interogate potential criminals for a variety of reasons, there are ways (I believe) to do so with incredible success without using old outdated "torturous" ways.
As ANY mother would know, they would never want to see their children suffer this way (especially if their guilt has not yet been determined beyond a doubt).
If we want to be humane to animals for obvious reasons and if we really do believe in GOD, we must apply these same reasons to ourselves.
Mary-Anne
Great blog Mary all God fearing Americans need to read her blog it's the truth and strait to the point long live America.
... Definitley not.!! To do so is playing politics with our national security. This can only weaken the CIA, as well as our struggle. against terrorism. It also endangers our troops. I can't believe this sensitive information is continually being exploited by CNN!
If it saved even one U.S. life, what is the question? The first and only thing the president has said I agree with; the past is the past and move on as a country. My opinion is: it is just a diversion to keep those who disagree with the "health care" proposal, out of the news.
Even though the prisoner is an enemy to the country, he should be treated fairly. It is right for the government to investigate the abuse of the enemy just as it is right to investigate the abuse of a fellow American.
With all our problems, we're now asked to examine our navel. Explain to me again, why?
There should not be an investigation. My answer goes against the grain of my military sentiment, because investigations are extremely costly and currently we are waging a financial war against self inflicted "deep" recession. It's not the money, mind you, it's the fact that after spending all of the $$$ to uncover the culprits and only to find that they have a legal escape route. Ergo, these degenerates, who behave worse than the people we war against, walk anyway. We're no better than the Scottish that invented a law to let the Pan Am bomber go free for oil and we have more excuses than anyone on the planet. We even have some that we haven't used yet, but will become available when and if these madmen are uncovered.
The government should launch an investigation into the corrupt, abusive, illegal, and terroristic tactics of the FAMILY COURT SYSTEM in this country. A murdere, rapist, AND TERRORIST is given more rights than a FATHER in our family court system. It is more abusive than you can imagine! Read the Book, "Taken Into Custody" BY Dr. Stephen Baskerville, then contact me and I will tell you my story. The system has as its goal, to DESTROY DADS, Alienate the children from him, bankrupt Dad, force him to live in poverty while he pays to support the kids his mother no longer considers his kids because she has been enabled and even supported by the court in her efforts to ALIENATE the children from their dad. Dads are DEMONIZED for attempting to have equal rights and equal time with their children. The FAmily court is corrupt from The Judges, the Lawyers, The Guardians and other court designated officers, the Social Workers, the Psychologists, and the Child Support system workers. IT is a heinous abuse process that literally kills many dads, damages children for life, and enables covert, passive aggressive, abusive moms. If you want to do something that is signifcant in your news career, and win a pulitzer, then all you need to do is take on this story that will blow your mind and sell more commercials than michael jackson's death. IT is so sickening to hear and see more time wasted on Michael's death, over and over again. God Bless him, but he is no longer with us. We are DESTROYING MORE LIVES EVERYDAY IN FAMILY COURT THAN WE HAVE LOST IN THE WARS SINCE VIETNAM! Wake Up MEdia! Healthcare is important, but the greatest destructive social and legal system in this country is the FAMILY COURT SYSTEM. There are obvious simple solutions and I can guarantee you, the number of court cases for custody can be cut in HALF immediately with proper changes in the divorce law, proper ENFORCEMENT of CUSTODY SCHEDULES (with consequences for failure to follow the legally agreed to and signed by the judge order which currently does not get enforced (except when its moms turn to have the kids, but not when its dads! YES this is discrimination!) I am eagerly looking forward to hearing from the media company that truly has INTEGRITY as its priority and TRULY has as its mission to expose the things in our society that are destructive to our society. Criminally charged felons, terrorists, and prisoners have more rights than Dads in family court. Think about it!!!!!! Peace.
Dear Heidi,
The CIA already forced the isssue to obtain a "get out of jail free" memo from the Bush-Chaney administration. Those alleged criminals re-wrote their own laws ignoring the constitutional safeguards and breaking other laws by Executive alteration which slapped the Geneva Convention safeguards as well. Their Attorney who embarrassed the Latino community, gave the CIA whatever they wanted. The trail of corruption leads back to those three who could and some believe should face criminal charges. Maybe Bush will be hung for causing what he sent others to the gallows. If anyone wanted justice they would have oversight for the CIA which would stem the ongoing allegations of continued drug distribution by that agency. Doesan;t anyone remember Maj. Calley and his excuse he was just "following orders" during the Viet-nam war? Tom McHatton
Heidi, There is much worse torture in the US than the CIA is committing.
All you have to do is look at your own news stories about beatings by the police. Police< jails , prisons all commit terrible atrocities. Nobody complains about this. Were is our Attorney General on this issue?
Holder's review, as described by "Newsweek" will just be a money-wasting and lame attempt to fullfill a meaningless campaign promise to "hold the Bush people's feet to the fire" and is all for show–a show trial, all smoke but no fire, and will result in no criminal prosecution, as with the Iran-Contra "investigation", where millions were spent on suits and uniforms to appear, without consequence. Our government in the United States holds no one answerable for anything~~If the Libyan monster can be freed to return home for a hero's welcome while Hillary is Obama's Secretary of State, I'm certain nothing in this panel's findings is "unforgiveable enough"! I am so disgusted with the Presidency of Barack Obama! His "cash for clunkers" deal hasn't even made good on 3% of the total payout due car dealerships!
Great blog Mary your absoluty right you told how the cow ate the cabbage the whole common since truth.
re. investigating cia torture:
Investigate, yes. And , above all else, PROSECUTE!
All around us are the weaklings who urge: Come on, get this behind us! and What the CIA does should be secret!
No more shilly-shally!
Investigate aggressively and put people on trial in federal courts and send them to jail.
Jeffrey Toobin's got it right! He says you're darned right, prosecute.
Eduardo Babb
US citizen
No! This document should not be released. This is simply a political tactic to go after personnel from the previous administration. It is also a tactic to divert public attention from the health care debate and the deficit issue, as is the reappointment of the Treasury Secretary.
But more importantly, the release is counterproductive, in the extreme, from our war against islamic extremism, which will embolden the enemy, promote their recruitment which obviously will result in prolongation of the conflict and more of our solders and civilians dieing.
This is a no-bainer in the cost to benefit analysis.
We must stop using "politically correct" language in the immigration arena. Illegal alients and NOT "undocumented immigrants;" they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. It's an insult to those countless generations of immigrants who came to this nation legally – to forge a better life within the framework of our American culture.
@ That Mary person.
Typing in caps isn't a proper way to emphasize your points. One begins to wonder exactly what is in the water the conservatives are drinking. In any case, it was revealed that a detainee was killed by the interrogation methods. Also the probe was launched after one of the people conducting said interrogations was worried on the legality of their methods. They didn't want to be prosecuted on some U.N. panel for war-crimes. So it isn't a witch hunt by the Obama administration. A lot of the revealed techniques are very Klaus Barbie-esque. That agent(s) should be applauded for knowing that the U.S. should adhere to higher standards.
The CIA has been committing crimes directly or indirectly for decades
Just ask to the DeBaley family living in Texas, they know very well the crimes of their relative Anastacio Somoza DeBailey a graduate from West Point and a dictator in nicaragua with the assistance of the CIA.
Or ask to Isabel Allende about the crimes which Pinochet committed with the help of the CIA in Chile.
Or ask to the Iranians which were tortured by Reza Pahlevi (the sha) with the help of the CIA
And the list goes on and on
Why are some so surprised about what the CIA does?
Give me a break!
Is chasing ghosts from the last administration really the most effective use of our national resources?
Do you really think you can reason with someone who is willing to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent non-combatants?
If alleged "torture" saved one American life, the price is worth it. What would you do to ensure your loved ones safety?
Don't waste resources on this political boondoggle.
No, you can't fight a war against terror with kindness, you need to fight back with the same resources. Hurts that nobody talks about the innocent victims of 9/11 but they talk about righteous treatment for those who killed them...Only in America!
Absolutely Yes. Any investigation should start with the people who authorized torture to be used. Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice, who repeatedly lied to the American people on this subject, and G.W. Bush. The former administration considered themselves to be above the law. I consider them to be nothing more than terrorists themselves for authorizing such heinous practices..I know I am not alone in this belief.
Terrorists have no rights, they respect no rights, they will kill you in an instant and then celebrate the event. No one is safe when a terrorist straps a bomb to his/her body and goes foward to kill everyone in a crowd. I agree we are a nation of laws and those laws apply to humans not animals. Terrorists are the lowest form of life on this planet and should be killed where ever they are found. The CIA people are heros not criminals and should be given medals not the threat of punishment for doing an outstanding job.
100% NO
We as Americans have known about the CIA for many yrs. We have also known that we don't want to know what they are doing. That is why it was created.To find people who will do things that you would not do or care to know about., hire them and let them protect you from the boogy man ! Just forget about it. DO WE NOT REMEMBER AMERICAN HEADS BEING CHOPPED OFF ON THE NET ????? UH DUH ! Now some idiot is complaining about the fact we threatened somebody with a gun or a drill. OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhh. I hope they drilled about 50 holes in him. Those guys are right now, RIGHT NOW, plotting against us. For reasons which will take many yrs to subside. There is although a thin line between allowing them free reign to do whatever is neccesary to protect us and allowing them to abridge our rights as American citizens. I am not sure how we could ever determine how and when they ever crossed it. Do you honestly think a special prosecutor will be able to get anything out of an organization
that specializes in espionage ? If there ever was a need for the president to stop govt. waste of taxpayer money it is now.
few points to make... interrogations are a good thing if used to find the truth of the matter but i do not believe that threatening peoples families or such should be possible tactics used to get information out of a person. no matter what the crime, a human is a human and pain is pain. i also agree taht we should not live in the past. let us deal with the problems we have today instead or tracing our steps back to the future. if we found nothing then then there is a slim chance we will find anything today.
U.S. laws should be enforced unless, of course, it is not convenient for some politician.
Torture?
No, emotional stress does not equate to torture. I'm sure the thousands of former P.O.W.s would agree with me on this one.
UnAmerican?
No. Empty threats forcing a person to comply is not only a part of America life, it's part of human nature. Credit agencies do it through phone calls, lawyers do it through letters, children do it through temper tantrums and you... you've probably even done it yourself. Maybe that dress wasn't the price you expected, or your significant other wasn't acting the way you liked.
If we're going to start criminalizing harmless, empty threats then no one in this country is above prosecution.
Why would anyone admit to voting for Obama? A national debt running about 80% of our GDP...not sustainable. Not good.
American laws don't matter overseas whether they were broken by Americans or not.
NO! I am greatful to those in the CIA & the military who care enough about our country, as in you and me, to do what it takes to protect it.
Here is a scenario: You are interrogating a prisoner. You know he has a dirty bomb set to go off in a stadium/train station or airport within 24 hours.....Thousands to be infected immediately and millions set to die thereafter..... how far do you go to get the information you need to save your family?
No, Mike Armstrong, I'm a perfect example of reason and accountability. I'm the perfect example of independant thinking instead of republican OR democratic sheeple. For example, let us apply the founding fathers logic to all of this...
"when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies [which you may read as States]; and such [was during the presidency of George W. Bush] the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the [Bush Administration] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States..."
"We, therefore, the [Voters] of the united States of America, in [the excercise of our votes], Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these [States], solemnly publish and declare, That these united [States] are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the [Bush Administration], and that all political connection between them and the [Former Bush Administration], is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."
Come to terms with that, if you can.
If we surrender our status as a nation of laws, not men, our enemies win.
Unless we display an adherence to law, the only power we will have is military. We need diplomatic power as well in order to survive.
@James. The question at hand is about laws not rights.
ANYBODY AT CNN READING THESE SHOULD FORWARD John McGrath'S INFO TO THE POLICE, SERIOUSLY. NO JOKE. HIS POST HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SUBJECT. HE RANTS IN FITS OF ANGER. WHILE AS A FATHER I FEEL SORRY FOR HIM AND DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THE COURT SYSTEM. HIS POST IS ALARMING TO SAY THE LEAST. I HOPE HE DOES NOT OWN ANY GUNS OR IS NOT MENTALLY WEAK. ANYBODY THAT LIVES WITHIN 100 MILES OF HIM SHOULD RUNNNNNNNNNN ! HE'S FIXIN' TO SNAP, SERIOUSLY. PLEASE CNN TAKE HEED. POTENTIAL SNAPPER HEAD ALERT ! READI IT. SHOW IT TO ONE OF YOUR LEGAL TEAM OR SOMETHING. YOUR ACTIONS MAY SAVE LIVES. AT LEAST GET SOMEONE TO TALK TO HIM. PLEASE , FOR HIS SAKE.
@Bruce: and what "law" did they violate exactly? Wrongful Imprisonment? Go ahead, sue for that. But I do not think crying "coersion" really fits here. According to these men, they were pressed for information but, becase of their innocence, they said nothing incriminating. That's not coersion, that's just wrongful imprisonment. Not something that needs a federal investigation.
Federal Investigations are usually saved for international crimnal rings and mass murderers. Not some guy getting yelled at because he was mistakne for a criminal.
How do people think we sleep peacefully at night? They should use any means possible to get the info we need to stay safe. To the people wanting to investigate this, take a good look at yourselves, and if there is another attack we should come looking for you.
James In Kamiah, Idaho.
Well spoken. We are definitely in a circle of history.
If an American breaks an American law while on vacation over seas will they be prosecuted by Americans when they return home?
Someone please post the law that allows American laws to be applied globally.
@Harold
EVERYONE has rights, whether terrorists respect no rights, terrorists may kill you in an instant and then celebrate the event, but that doesn't mean we have leave to act like them. No one is safe when a terrorist straps a bomb to his/her body and goes foward to kill everyone in a crowd, that's why we shoudl do all we can to fight that terrorism, but not by acting liek terrorists in a different fashion. We are a nation of laws and those laws apply to all humans, and that includes humans that act like animals. Conservatives are the lowest form of life on this planet because theier policices often create terrorists, and assinine comments like "[terrorists] should be killed where ever they are found" instead of prosecuting them to the full extent of international law is just the type of stupid conservative dogma that got us here in the first place.
The CIA people who engaged in this terroristic behavior are not heroes, they are criminals and should be given long prison sentences as punishment for doing an outstanding job of screwing things up for the rest of us.
@Doug Williams, the issue at hand is about using loopholes in the law to excuse denying human beings their rights
The let history be our guidepost, not our hitching post.
Violence encourages violence and in the case of torture does not get accurate information. Yes these people who lowered the standards of this great nation need to be charged with treason and locked away where they can not do this nation anymore harm.
those who ordered the torture are guilty even if the prescribed methods were not followed.
How can we be A great nation if we do the same as our enemies, How can we bring peace when we encourage and partake in vioalence.
self defence is one thing shooting a person in the back as they escape is murder and torture is wrong. We have laws and no one is above them.
Don D. Brock
@Doug: That depends a lot on the type of crime and whether it was commited against or with another American. For example, if you went of vacation with your fiance and murdered them, their family could sue you back the states for a murder you commited overseas. However, if you go to a place where you partake in an activity which is illegal here but legal there, no, you are not a criminal. Prostitution and gambling would be easy examples.
Let us remember the people that leaped out of buildings to their death and the terror that struck our nation. I don't condone these practices however I wonder what rule book the terrorists use? Whats the best way to deter the terrorists?
Freethinker. THIS IS THAT MARY PERSON. We ADHERED TO HIGHER STANDARDS PRE-9/11, BUT DID THAT STOP THESE TERRORISTS? IF SCARE TACTICS ARE NOT USED, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST, PLEASE AND THANK YOU?" GOD BE WITH YOU AND YOURS SHOULD A TERRORIST WITH A BOMB TIED TO HIS/HER BODY BE IN AN AREA THAT YOU THINK IS SAFE. And, the water where I reside is okay, I USE A WATER FILTER just in case. DO YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS WHEN YOU GET A CALL THAT YOUR LOVE ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANTHRAX AND HAS BEEN RUSHED TO A HOSPITAL? I DO. SORRY THE "CAPS" BOTHER YOU.
What good do these hearings, investigations, or committees do? The 9/11 Commission resulted in the prosecution of no one, and although the findings suggested al-Quaeda's involvement, it was US, the American people, who are punished anytime we board an airplane, treated as if WE are the criminals. A rogue government which hijacked my country in the Florida elections managed to get into office and pull-off a "Reichstag" fire, and blamed Osama bin Laden. Where is this guy? Why can't we find him? So, this investigation that Holder will head is, as Newsweek has already described, without any teeth, and no heads will roll. These Stooges can't even get health care or Cash for clunkers right! We have incompetent boobs in office, or the other team–Cheney, Blackwater & Enron's Darth Vader!
James you really get offencive when you stick your foot in your mouth huh.
Freethinker. About that "detainee that was killed by interrogation methods." DID YOU HAPPEN TO CATCH THE VIDEO OF THE AMERICAN WHO WAS BEHEADED?
James In Kamiah, Idaho
I was fond of your historical quotes but now it seems like you contradict yourself.
If "that’s why we should do all we can to fight that terrorism'
and"We are a nation of laws"
as you say how exactly and what exactly is your defintion of 'all we can do' ? Up to the point where we serve him tea and crumpets ?
If we are a NATION of laws why would those apply to a bunch of folks in Afg chopping heads off of our comrades ?
@James in Idaho you said "Conservatives are the lowest form of life on this planet because theier policices often create terrorists, and assinine comments like “[terrorists] should be killed where ever they are found" instead of prosecuting them to the full extent of international law is just the type of stupid conservative dogma that got us here in the first place."
Since you are making broad applications about conservatives let me answer by making another. Since you are obviously a democrat then let me ask – Have you paid all of your taxes?
SINBAD. You are obviously not familiar with the fact that family court has no oversight, does not even acknowledge constitutional rights, and is the most corrupt court system since czarist russia. Let me guess sinbad, you are part of the system maybe? Do you work for a child support collection company or own shares in one of these companies? Take the time to read the book, "Taken Into Custody" by Dr. Stephen Baskerville, then lets talk about reality. Are you an attorney? Are you a supporter of NOW? Do you believe in totalitarian regimes? I will be happy to undergo any kind of psychological screening in front of America, on Dr. Phil's show, Oprah, I will take lie detector tests, and you can investigate my background from the cradle to the present. I am a great Dad, a christian, a hard worker, and I am honest. When you go to Family Court, which many people call, "The Liar's Court" it is a fiasco that has nothing to do with truth and reality. The disordered, histrionic, paranoid, best storyteller's and whoever has a cult of "Friends" who will lie and support their outrageous fairytales generally wins. PAS Parental Alienation Syndrome is child abuse, and the courts here enable it, and even support it. So, Sinbad, read the book, or read a few books on the subject and then let's talk when perhaps your ignorance is less than the size of your entire head.
Does anyone remember Sept. 11. Does any one remember the bodies of Americans burnt or crushed or jumping out of the skyscraper windows? Innocent Americans, women, children and men. Different races, different religions but all Americans. The acts of terrorism do not discriminate. Anyone close,dies. Over two thousand on that day alone. And someone is crying about interrogation techniques? Shame on you! Would you rather see two thousand fellow Americans die in fiery explosions or a terrorist get water dumped on his or her face. Thats right! Her, they also use children to carry and detonate bombs!
Navy Seal Team 10 fought a remarkable battle against the taliban in Afghanistan in 2005. All but one lost their lives. The battle could have been avoided if the Seal team would of followed military protocol. Instead fearing prosecution from do-gooders in their own country lead to the largest loss of life in Navy Seal history. I suggest that all who think we are to tough on terrorist prisoners to read "LONE SURVIVOR" by Marcus Luttrel.
While the taliban and al Qaeda are decapitating our soldiers or dragging their naked bodies through the streets, we will make sure that the detainees we have will have three good meals and cable tv.
ONCE AGAIN, SHAME ON YOU!!!
@Sean, you're welcome to come looking for me anytime. My last name is Foley
@ Sarah Ashworth... Wrongful imprisonment, failinga false report, making false claims [also known as pretended offenses, reference the Decleration of independance], excessive and unnecessary use fo force, malicious prosecution... shall we go on?
This entire war was caused by and directed by morally bankrupt cowards. It has darkened America’s honor around the world. We could have answered 9/11 with courage and dignity. Right after 9/11 we had the respect and sympathy of the world. We squandered that good will by resorting to the same illegal, ruthless and cruel tactics for which we have chastised all the tin horn dictators of the world. We are no better than they are. I am grateful for our new President and his team. There is now a opportunity for America's redemption.
James in Kamiah, Idaho. I haven't seen you explaining your comment to me about "conservative republican paranoia." I did see your comment about "doppleganger." I have to admit, I had to look this one up. I do not know Mike Armstrong of TX, but he sounds like SOMEONE WHOSE OPINONS I COULD RESPECT.
Thanks Mary .
@Mary... i.e. Doppleganger
@Doug, I was only mirroring your broad generalization, and I am OBVIOUSLY an independant. 😉
@Sinbad...
We WANT to bring our strongest arguements. We also WANT the terrorists to bring theirs. We WANT both sides to fight tooth and nail. We WANT this because, when all is said and done we EXPECT we will win in a court of law. We CANNOT win, not only in acourt of Law, but in the hearts and minds of INNOCENT muslims, if we act in ways we calim to detest. THAT is what teh CIA interrrogators are accused of doing. IF that is true, THEN we have an obligation to prosecute them as well as the people they claim to be protecting us from.
Mary August 25th, 2009 9:51 am ET
NO! I am an AMERICAN and I SUPPORT THE CIA in its interrogation of terrorists. Obama is on a WITCH HUNT into the Bush Administration. AMERICANS NEED TO REMEMBER THE USS COLE, 17 SAILORS WERE KILLED. This was a SUICIDE ATTACK AGAINST THE USS COLE. The CIA is SCARING THESE INDIVIDUALS, NOT CUTTING THEIR THROATS! As I see it, this was an ATTACK ON AMERICA AS WELL. How should these people be interrogated? Should the CIA say, “please?” If the tables were turned and AMERICANS were being held as prisoners, we would probably be seeing them getting their THROATS CUT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. If Obama has his way,
…Your conserns are unwarrantede, hasty generalizations, and your feelings on the matter are invalid. I especially enjoyed a good laugh at this part … you said “we will see him [meaning Obama] having a BEER AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THESE PEOPLE. Paranoia is defined as an irrational fear. Your fear of Obama, as is parroted by typical republicans everywhere, is irrational, and therefor, paranoid. Following along now?
This is what makes America great the freadom of speach letting every one vent there feelings we are all in the same boat and need not be fighting among ourselves we can only trust our elected officials to do the right thing which some of us may not agree with but it is our duty to follow our presidents lead . GOOD FUN DISCUSION GUYS.
Mike Armstrong TX. August 25th, 2009 11:26 am ET
James you really get offencive when you stick your foot in your mouth huh.
...>>>I haven't stuck my foot in my mouth Doug... and I challenge you to show where I have
Mary August 25th, 2009 11:30 am ET
Freethinker. About that “detainee that was killed by interrogation methods.” DID YOU HAPPEN TO CATCH THE VIDEO OF THE AMERICAN WHO WAS BEHEADED?
...>>>I dont' know if he has, but I did... reminds me of that one time that that one CIA agent decided to threten to call a terrorists mother in for sexual acts... did YOU catch THAT? of course not... selctive memory of course.
and gee Mary, isn't that a noble way to act? [sarcasm]
I thought only communist countries and dictators did "cleansing" of the "old guard" whenever new leaders came into power. If we are worried about POWs safety, then why not let the military make all the decisions on interrogation as we did in WW2 ?? Of course we would still not condone killing or real torture of prisoners as has always been our policy.
James, 3 yr active duty in 10 years of military obgligation
I can't believe that this is even a topic. I can't understand the people who call this kind of interrogation, torture. How can we fight terrorists if we can't even intimidate or scare them. These are the same people who shout "death to America" and would like to see as many innocent Americans killed as possible. The same who decapitate innocent people on video and display it to the world, yet some people would like to bring this country down by saying that we are the ones being barbaric. Wake up, people, The CIA are like kindergarten teachers compared to these terrorists. If the new Administration wants to change policy, fine. But don't prosecute people for past policy that, mind you, has been keeping us safe since 9/11.
I also am a decorated vetern from the Jimmy Carter years like I said James good blog fight thats what you and i served our country for the freedom to speak.
As a formal Naval Aviator we were trained before going into combat, so we would know what to expect during torture and interrogation
if captured. Most Americans would be surprised to see how realistic the training was and how we were subjected to such things as "water dunking", cold exposure, food deprivation, sleep deprivation and humiliation. After the training, I wrote a letter to the Admiral in charge, expressing how much I appreciated the fact that so many had gone to so much trouble to make the training realistic. I felt much better prepared to go into harm's way for my country, knowing that I had a better idea of what to expect if the worst happened and I was captured. My wife felt better for the training too.
They should be investigating the whole Bush Administration for all sorts of crimes! They should be setting an example to the new administration of what not to do! Obama has just ok`ed special interrogations unit in the FBI, what does this mean, he can do what he condemned Bush for? I say all government officials and workers should be investigated for crimes, including all law enforcement! Until the government can be trusted do we really have a democracy? I say if you are also President and you make decisions that adversely affect the people of this country you should be tried for Treason! This country should be first and foremost, let the rest of the world worry about their own problems! As long as we keep worrying about everyone elses problems and not our own, can we really call ourselves a country?
and I serve my country everyday by arguing against such extreme views as yours Mike in TX
James in Kamiah, Idaho. Thank you for expanding on your comment to me. In this regard, I have to admit that I continue to be clueless about your meaning. I hope this does not lead to another diagnosis of me by you, i.e., that I am illiterate or stupid, because I have to tell you, that would probably "hurt my feelings," no, not really! From your comments, I have come to the understanding that you have diagnosed me with some type of "anxiety disorder or mental illness," i.e. your use of "irrational fear" and "paranoia," all because I disagreed with you and/or you did not agree with or like what I wrote. Actually, "irrational fear" is the "unreasonable desire to avoid the feared subject," which to the contrary, I have not and did not do. If I feared Obama, I would not have commented the way I did. The "noble way?" Is that when AMERICANS say, "okay bomb the hell out of us, kill us, kill our children, and we will do nothing to you? And as for "selective memory." When we talk about terrorist and terrorism, pictures of 9/11 and the beheading of an AMERICAN comes to my mind. I believe that it is GOD'S RESPONSIBILITY TO FORGIVE, MINE IS TO NEVER FORGET.
Joe August 25th, 2009 12:25 pm ET
I can’t believe that this is even a topic. I can’t understand the people who call this kind of interrogation, torture.
...>>>Com'ere... I have a DeWalt 18volt I want to introduce you to
How can we fight terrorists if we can’t even intimidate or scare them?
...>>>Reconnisance, intelligence gathering, capture and confinement, GI Joe-jack [lowjack for marines 😉 ], Uustan Tlun Dalninuk Grimace, lueth Uustan orn elendar malrak [windtalking (reference the Movie Windtalkers w/ Nicholas Cage)], support of diplomacy with moderate muslims, etc. Shall I go on?
These are the same people who shout “death to America” and would like to see as many innocent Americans killed as possible.
...>>>Death to taxes, Death to homework, death to... It helps if you understand the context, and for those [actually in terrorist organizations] like AlQueda, it is disingenuous and unethical to paint muslims indiscriminantly witha broad brush, and we have no proof the military hasn't besides the past suspicious administrations assurances.
The same who decapitate innocent people on video and display it to the world, yet some people would like to bring this country down by saying that we are the ones being barbaric.
...>>>Actually, we are defending this country as it should be, in spirirt as well as in war. Once again, that this person or that decides to act in a terroristic manner does not give leave to everyone else to act the same. If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?
Wake up, people, The CIA are like kindergarten teachers compared to these terrorists.
...>>>No, if the allegations are true, then the CIA are terrorists compared to these terrorists.
If the new Administration wants to change policy, fine.
...>>>It's not just about changing policy, it's about correcting false policy, and not downplaying the significance of Americans acting like terrorists under the pretense of self defense [a defense unwarranted and invalid by the way, as Iraq never attacked us].
But don’t prosecute people for past policy that, mind you, has been keeping us safe since 9/11.
...>>>And to say that Bush Administration policy is what kept us safe, rather than that these terrorists are really one trick ponies, is highly dissingenuous.
Fair enough you earnd the right James from Idaho at least you and I know what its like to loose our personal freedom and stand up for what we believe in even if we disagree good luck blog fight ya later.
Mary "If Obama has his way, we will see him having a BEER AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THESE PEOPLE."
...>>>Mary, if ANYONE was to say this they would be paranoid. It doesn't matter who you are or who tyou think you are or who you think you represent, such a statement is [is as in ='s for all you clintonites out there] paranoid. It fits exactly the definition of paranoia. Not my opinion, but objective fact. You simply disagreeing with me or whathaveyou did not deserve a claim of paranoia, but your paranoid statement did.
But, if you'd prefer..
Definition
Paranoia is an unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others, sometimes reaching delusional proportions. Paranoid individuals constantly suspect the motives of those around them, and believe that certain individuals, or people in general, are "out to get them."
Description
Paranoid perceptions and behavior may appear as features of a number of mental illnesses, including depression and dementia, but are most prominent in three types of psychological disorders: paranoid schizophrenia, delusional disorder (persecutory type), and paranoid personality disorder (PPD).
Individuals with paranoid schizophrenia and persecutory delusional disorder experience what is known as persecutory delusions: an irrational, yet unshakable, belief that someone is plotting against them. Persecutory delusions in paranoid schizophrenia are bizarre, sometimes grandiose, and often accompanied by auditory hallucinations. Delusions experienced by individuals with delusional disorder are more plausible than those experienced by paranoid schizophrenics; not bizarre, though still unjustified. Individuals with delusional disorder may seem offbeat or quirky rather than mentally ill, and, as such, may never seek treatment.
Persons with paranoid personality disorder tend to be self-centered, self-important, defensive, and emotionally distant. Their paranoia manifests itself in constant suspicions rather than full-blown delusions. The disorder often impedes social and personal relationships and career advancement.
My problem with this, we are the only country that plays by rules. The politicians should stay out and let the Army and CIA do their jobs, if it's going to save our lives. Did the ACLU go after the people who supposedly beheaded the man, named Berg? If that wasn't torture, I don't know what you would call it. I would like to see the ACLU go and try to prosecute those people and see how long they would be alive. I feel this country tries to change to many things that a few people don't like. Our service men and women put their life on the line everyday so the few have their right to complain. Like the old saying goes IF YOU DON"T LIKE HERE "LEAVE". And likely, most of the so called politicians probably never served in the military and put their life on the line for GOD and COUNTRY.
There seems to be a lot of emotional ranting about this topic. Respect for the rule of law does not equate with sympathy for terrorists. Morally, these people are on the same plane as Charles Manson. Adherence to the rule of law is about us, not them.
Torture has been proven to be unreliable. If you believe waterboarding and pistol pointing will scare people who use suicide bombing as a tactic you are living in la-la land. These people want to die and get their heavenly reward.
It is much more effective to get information by talking softly and gaming these people. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water boarded over 180 times. Not very effective in obtaining information by any reasonable standards. When his interrogators pretended to show him respect, his ego made him start naming names.
I'm a New Yorker, and I saw the 9/11 attacks in real life and real time. Anyone involved in the attack deserves capital punishment, and I don't much care if they forget to inject the painkilling part of the cocktail. But we need to make sure that we're executing the right people.
Mary..."The “noble way?” Is that when AMERICANS say, “okay bomb the hell out of us, kill us, kill our children, and we will do nothing to you? And as for “selective memory.” When we talk about terrorist and terrorism, pictures of 9/11 and the beheading of an AMERICAN comes to my mind."
...>>>No, the noble way is to NOT act liek the murderers and terorists we calim to be against, even in the face of great and horrible grief. If the accusations are true, then these CIA agents acted grossly unethically and ignobley. For tyou to reach such an assinine conclusion is also ignoble as it is a faulty appeal to irrational and unfounded emotions.
and as far as slective memory, When we talk about terrorist and terrorism, pictures of a drill bit heading towards your head, the likely rape of your family and death of your children come to mind. Your memory only selects that which you imagine may be done to you based on erronious propoganda fed to you by the previous administration.
That is actually your disclaimer or release of liability... for anyone to present false data and to supress you from knowing what they know is grossly unethical. In short, you're only as informed as the idiot informing you. That idiot being Bush.
Why is everone either a self proclaimed liberal or conservative? Why cant most people be in the middle where common sense lays? Heres what liberal means to the people in the middle, it means you are a panderer of minorities and the poor, a conservative means a bible thumper whos interest really is their pocket book masked by the bible! I believe liberals should spend more time actually working instead of getting inline for a free handout! I believe conservatives should be taking more of the responsibility for what has happened to our economy instead of trying to villify the left! I know Obama needs to start caring more for the middle class like his number one campaign promise was to be! So far he`s helped out the poor and wealthy alike, its time to stop helping people who either dont help themselves or people whos goal in life is to have everything at everyone elses expense!
To Mike Armstrong in Texas. You are welcome. While, we may not always agree with what the other one writes, we acknowledge that we each HAVE THE RIGHT to express our feelings on a subject, unlike James in Kamiah, Idaho, who would seek to SILENCE US or MAKE FUN OF WHAT WE WRITE. I have also come to the conclusion that I will include the words "IN GOD, I TRUST" on all of my comments from now on, starting with this one. I already use this on all of my e-mails. In closing, I hope that you and James (not James in Kamiah, Idaho), will ACCEPT MY THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. IN GOD, I TRUST.
i tihnk of course they should investigate everyone has to live by rules otherwise theres no order and if the governemt didnt thats sending a bad example for the younger generation of government.
Liberals would like to see Obama having a beer with terrorists, conservatives would like to see us act like Nazi Germany! Heres the problem! If we as a nation had gotten together and found a solution to our use of oil and found alternatives 50 years ago then we along with not allowing the United Nations to go in Palastine in the late 40`s and kick those people off their land and allow Jews to settle an already settled land we wouldnt even be talking about terrorists! I`m quite sure that even Americans would resort to terrorism if they felt it was their only recourse!
Bruce in NY... Agreed.
There's no such thing as a god. Your point is moot.
Since the ACLU decided to get involved in this, I would like to suggest to everyone who believes in GOD and who write comments on the CNN blogs that you CONSIDER putting the words, IN GOD, I TRUST on all of your comments on the CNN blogs. Now, James in Kamiah, Idaho, I am not writing this to upset you, so no comment from you is required.
And while you're at it repeal the Patriot Act.
Biggest intrusion into anyone's freedom and liberties.
Justifying the fight of terrorism with terrorism is not justifiable.
Or we can go back to the dark ages like the Spanish Inquisition.
Same thing different century.
Mary August 25th, 2009 1:14 pm ET
To Mike Armstrong in Texas. You are welcome. While, we may not always agree with what the other one writes, we acknowledge that we each HAVE THE RIGHT to express our feelings on a subject, unlike James in Kamiah, Idaho, who would seek to SILENCE US
...>>>Actually, I want you, just like I want the terrorists, to bring your strongest arguements, that way, when my arguements win, you can't say you didn't give ti your all.
or MAKE FUN OF WHAT WE WRITE.
...>>>If that were true, then why would I want to silence such a cornucopia of humor?
I have also come to the conclusion that I will include the words “IN GOD, I TRUST” on all of my comments from now on, starting with this one. I already use this on all of my e-mails. In closing, I hope that you and James (not James in Kamiah, Idaho), will ACCEPT MY THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. IN GOD, I TRUST.
...>>>I accept your thanks anyways. I deserve it. 😉 After all, I'm the one who tells you the truth even thought the truth may sting. That's one sign of a true friend. A false friend would coddle and enable your paranoia, and it's better to have honest enemies rather than false friends.
And yet my comment is forthcoming... though, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was upset. I'm merely correcting your mistakes.
James in Kamiah, Idaho. I do not agree with you on anything you have written thus far, but I also have not continually "persecuted" you for your comments. I simply asked you to expand on your comment(s) specifically directed towards me. I was determined to be "civil" in this my last response to you, but I find that I cannot. Therefore, here goes. "THE ELECTION IS OVER. MY PARTY LOST. YOUR PARTY WON...SO, I WILL HUG MY ELEPHANT AND YOU CAN KISS YOUR -."
James your like trying to argue with a dining room table I must say you are a persistant vetern but I think maybe you might be suffering from post tramatic cant let it go decease the point is that some things need to be left as secret information thats why Heidy read my blog and not yours because I made since and you made nonsense .
My name is Jin Yang Hun.
I am south korean homeless man in washington.d.c.
After I found out identity theft in los angeles 6 years ago,I became a homeless.
If you go my blogs and homepages,you could know what happened to me and many other homeless in the street.
Most of them doesn't know they are identity theft victim by their own government.
I think cia,nsa,dia,police department,fbi work for it.
As you know,u.s.a have decorated their public image as a most HOLY CHRISTIAN in the world.
Of course,
even you cannot accept and believe it.
I mean Most HOLY CHRISTIAN!
This is the reason why
if u.s.a government illegal operation,-Example,
Gay/Boy Trafficking Business(I opposed this in public and Cheating,Taunts,Threatening,Stealing have followed in Public.),Drug Business(I exposed this to the world),Identity Theft(I exposed this,too.)-could expose to the public and the world,
u.s.a government could have lot of serious problem.
So,
ruthless torture and kidnapping should not be avoidable by cia and other.
from
library on G st between 9th st and 10th st.
Mary August 25th, 2009 1:36 pm ET
James in Kamiah, Idaho. I do not agree with you on anything you have written thus far, but I also have not continually “persecuted” you for your comments. I simply asked you to expand on your comment(s) specifically directed towards me. I was determined to be “civil” in this my last response to you, but I find that I cannot. Therefore, here goes. “THE ELECTION IS OVER. MY PARTY LOST. YOUR PARTY WON…SO, I WILL HUG MY ELEPHANT AND YOU CAN KISS YOUR —.”
...>>>Impossible; your head is already in the way.
Mike, you haven't got a clue why heidi read your blog. Although your most recent comment seems to fit this description...
Persons with paranoid personality disorder tend to be self-centered, self-important, defensive, and emotionally distant. Their paranoia manifests itself in constant suspicions rather than full-blown delusions. The disorder often impedes social and personal relationships and career advancement.
You did mean the opposite of donkey huh Mary that was a good comeback.
Yes they should investigate.
It wasn't only us against the terrorists. It was us and our allies who weren't sure about Iraq, but who were with us in Afghanistan, and the generally supportive of us countries around the world and then the terrorists. By blowing off the almost universally understood protections of captive detainees, we risked losing the support of countries that are deeply pro US. We need those countries even now.
From the pt of vw of a voter, we have Abu Graib, repts of mistreatment (in addition to the recently disclosed enhanced interrogation techniques) at Guantanamo, the unbelieveable argument by trained lawyers that slamming people against a rubber wall (that they did not know was rubber), waterboarding them, depriving them of sleep, making them sit or squat in a confined space, putting them in a cold room without clothes is not torture because no one actually gets physically hurt, and now this release of the CIA inspector general that overt threats with guns and a drill were made against detainees, that in one case their family was threatened (with sexual assualt?), and that some detainees were threatened with executions. So there is not only a pattern and evidence of the abuse of detainees in US military facilities and at the CIA and involving Dept of Justice lawyers, but also evidence of increasingly threatening and abusive practices. Keep up with this and you can completely undo the public's trust of the government and wreck the foundation of our own liberty, and the whole country.
I could go on, but the point is if the abuses at Abu Graib had continued we would be where we are now in Iraq? Isn't it possible the abuse at that prison might've spread to other prisons? Isn't possible that word would've gotten out in that country and we would've seen less support and more attacks on US troops? It would've added to the confusion in an already chaotic and murderous situation.
Torturing the enemy because they are aledged terrorists makes terrorists out of us. It opens the door to justify torture of our people by other countries, and actually increases the chances that other countries will torture our troops when captured, as well as retaliatory killing of Americans. It doesn't yeild any more valuable information but rather decreases the reliability of the information we get from terrorists. It degrades us as asociety and as individuals and it create a slippery slope which can cause us to slide down to the point we torture our own citizens ourt of paranioa as was done in World War Two. Cheny has no concience and clearly was instrumental in pushing the CIA to torure extremes with his support and influence over the justice department and the president Bush for that matter. It must be investigated and it will make us stronger ( and less paranoid) I am a Republican and fully support a full investigation. Republican Patriot in PA
Now let me see if I've got this right. This guy kills over three thousand innocent people and we're supposed to launch an investigation into why he might be upset over the sound of an electric drill or the dripping of water?
No
THE CIA WAS PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY FROM TERRORISTS. WHO WILL PROTECT US FROM OUR GOVERNMENT/
No! Why does the way we do things to known terrorists matter, if we're trying to prevent the loss of American lives? Yes, it is understandable that we are breaking laws, but they do it too and they don't care about the people that they're killing. Meanwhile, if the CIA were to sit around and interrogate people the way police departments do, the terrorists wouldnt open up their mouths, they've been trained not to do so, and by doing that innocent people will be killed. Seriously, the CIA is doing whatever it takes to save lives. And here is the justice department trying to stop that. What about if they do stop it, and then something happens? How are they going to answer to all those peoples' families? They say that terrorists interrogated have admitted to lying during interrogations. But don't you think a terrorist would lie even more if he was sitting at a police department's interrogation room? The gov't is so ridiculous.! Here they are talking about how disgracing the Scottish were for releasing Al-Megrahi, but then they want to stop treating terrorist like terrorist. Sounds like a bunch of hypocracy to me. I mean, isn't the army doing the same thing over there? Killing people right? It's ok if they kill people, but not the CIA. It's absurd what the Justice department wants to do, just as it is absurd to close down Guantanamo. Thanks politicians, for helping the terrorists get away with killing our families..
To all who are crying foul to the alleged torture of terrorist to obtain information. If and when the time comes that this country suffers another attack, you can rest assured that we'll get that information out of them with cookies and milk and lots of "Please tell me.....!"
Let the CIA and intelligence units do their jobs! They are dealilng with terroists who do not value our lives or our country. In fact they hate us. Do you think we would be treated fairly by them or their governments? Hell no. They are lucky to still be alive, and since they survived our interrogations the CIA methods weren't unreasonable. The CIA and military did what needed to be done to gather information and out the enemy. We should do it again whenever necessary.
Why all of a sudden in this generation does following unlawful orders give a person a pass for wrong doing? It didn't help Calley. Congress then said it was his duty to disobey the unlawful order:
Calley Finally Apologizes for My LaiAugust 24, 2009Columbus Ledger-Enquirer COLUMBUS, Ga. - William Calley, the former Army lieutenant convicted on 22 counts of murder in the infamous My Lai massacre in Vietnam, publicly apologized for the first time this week while speaking in Columbus. "There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai," Calley told members of the Kiwanis Club of Greater Columbus on Wednesday. His voice started to break when he added, "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry." In March 1968, U.S. soldiers gunned down hundreds of civilians in the Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai. The Army at first denied, then downplayed the event, saying most of the dead were Vietcong. But in November 1969, journalist Seymour Hersh revealed what really happened and Calley was court-martialed and convicted of murder. Calley had long refused to grant interviews about what happened, but on Wednesday he spoke at a Columbus Kiwanis meeting. He made only a brief statement, but agreed to take questions from the audience. He did not deny what had happened that day, but did repeatedly make the point – which he has made before – that he was following orders. Calley explained he had been ordered to take out My Lai, adding that he had intelligence that the village was fortified and would be "hot" when he went in. He also said the area was submitted to an artillery barrage and helicopter fire before his troops went in. It turned out that it was not hot and there was no armed resistance. But he had been told, he said, that if he left anyone behind, his troops could be trapped and caught in a crossfire. Asked about American casualties, Calley said there were two injuries, but neither was the result of enemy fire, adding, "They didn't have time." One person asked about the story of a helicopter coming into My Lai during the massacre and its pilot threatening to open fire if the killing of civilians didn't stop. Calley said the pilot asked if he could take children out of the area and he relayed that request to his captain, who said the pilot could. As far as any threats to fire on American soldiers by the pilot, or any threats of firing on the chopper, he said he does not recall hearing about that. He did say the helicopter was making a lot of noise during his conversation with the pilot. Asked if the story about the threat to fire on troops killing civilians came from the pilot, Calley replied, "It certainly didn't come from me." When asked if obeying an unlawful order was not itself an unlawful act, he said, "I believe that is true. If you are asking why I did not stand up to them when I was given the orders, I will have to say that I was a second lieutenant getting orders from my commander and I followed them – foolishly, I guess." Calley then said that was not an excuse; it was just what happened. The officer Calley said gave those orders was Capt. Ernest Medina, who was also tried for what happened at My Lai. Represented by the renowned defense attorney F. Lee Bailey, Medina was acquitted of all charges in 1971. That same year, Calley didn't fare as well. After four months of testimony in a Fort Benning courtroom and almost two weeks of jury deliberation, he was convicted of premeditated murder. After the verdict was read, but before sentencing, Calley was allowed to address the court. "I'm not going to stand here and plead for my life or my freedom," Calley said. "If I have committed a crime, the only crime I have committed is in judgment of my values. Apparently I valued my troops' lives more than I did those of the enemy ..." Calley was sentenced to life in prison, which was later shortened considerably. Many at the time considered Calley a scapegoat, forced to take the fall for those above him. That sentiment had been very strong when the late federal Judge J. Robert Elliot released Calley from custody after a habeas corpus hearing. An appeals court reversed Elliot's ruling and Calley was returned to Army custody, but the Army soon paroled him. Calley then settled in Columbus, Ga., married a young woman named Penny Vick and worked in her father's jewelry store here for years. He now lives in Atlanta with his 28-year-old son, Laws, who is doing doctoral work in electrical engineering at Georgia Tech. Calley has been free now for years, but he remains stripped of some of his civil rights. "No, I still cannot vote," he said. "In fact, I'm not even supposed to go into the post office, I guess." Pham Thanh Cong, director of a museum at the site of the 1968 massacre, welcomed the apology, but said Calley's superiors should still be held responsible, according to a report by Deutsche Presse-Agentur. "Lieutenant William Calley's apology for his massacre comes too late, but I think it is better late than never," 52-year-old Pham Thanh Cong told the German news agency. Cong survived the massacre that claimed his parents and three sisters. He told the news service that he would welcome Calley to visit My Lai today and that he would be received "kindly and decently." But Cong said Calley's superior officers, including Medina, also should apologize.
Leave the CIA alone please, if there was wrongdoing on someone within the system, they will be released from duty. The Army, Marines, etc have internal cases in where they get discharged. I thought the people that Holder is going after have already went thru the scrunity of the DoJ, CIA, and Congress and the cases were deemed a done matter. And now we have Holder rehatching this matter for what? To please certain members of the ACLU and a few Congressman and Senators whom would like President George Bush prosecuted as well. We need to stop demoralizing the CIA. Why don't we hear about the related CIA's and FBI's of other countries being talked about in China, France, Russia, Israel, Australia. And we sit here in this country talking about the how evil the CIA is. The CIA is everywhere and they do things that should not be talked about and should be monitored and operated by the White House in protecting our national interests and overlooked by a bi-partisan group of Congress not make sure that they serving our country only and its interests as well. I mean this was the case when President Bush was in office, wasn't it. And this should be the case now. But to start saying we are going to try these CIA people for over stepping their duties is ridiculous, if anything discharge them from duty for overstepping their responsibility but don't prosecute them for trying to protect us.
Yes, the government should launch an investigation into CIA interrogation abuses but when Senators argue about letting citizens talk is like arguing with a dining room table. What can I say? There are too many things wrong on this art of communicating.
On August 25th, 2009, at 10:36pm, I was informed via my desktop that Ted Kennedy Died. I want to offer my sincerest sympathies to the family, and the nation.
To all the people that think we should not investigate the CIA,
if you are also against health care reform hollering that we will become like Nazi Germany.
To all of you, if we do not investigate we mind as well adopt the name
Gestapo or SS for the CIA, since that is what their job was to torture people to get false confessions.
How soon we forget.
To Ines....huh???? Since when is the sound of an electric drill and the dunking in water considered torture? Now explain what you mean by ".....we MIND as well....". For your own edification I believe you mean 'might'. You need to work on your English. And while you're at it tell me what the connection is between the CIA being against the health reform....?????
Wideeyes,
in case you missed the part where it say's (if you are also against health care reform), it wasn't addressed to the CIA but to the righteous ones in this country that think health care in Germany was introduced by Nazi's.
Bismark instituted that in the late 1880's.
And if you think dunking in water or an electric drill isn't torture, why don't you volunteer for the CIA as a test subject.
Extreme fear inflicted onto a person in any form is torture.
What planet are you from?
And thank you for correcting my English, which by the way is my second language.
Mike Armstrong TX, you obviously missed my response... but then she's in line behind you
Art. 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[ (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
We pay these people to protect us. Let them do their jobs. Remember this, we slap a face, while they chop off heads.
http://www.genevaconventions.org/
Art. 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. (2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Article 5.
* No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Ines, please, health care was introduced by Ceaser over 2,000 years ago. And where does it say "Estreme fear inflicted onto a person in any form is torture". Answer that question and save me the liberal trite of human compassion, when this Mohammad was responsible for the deaths of over 3,000 innocent people. And we're worried that the CIA use .....? oh yea, sounds of an electric drill and the college pranks of water dunking, for fear we may upset this guy. And you think you're torturing a mass murderer.
I'll keep it short and sweet. Democrats are too soft on interrogations. Hardened criminals need a tough hammer to break them. Not coddling.
I must have missed something. You sill haven't answered my question concerning "...fear..". Do you honestly think for one second that if we say please this thug who killed thousands of innocent people will comply with the CIA's request?
Wideeyes, here are a few enjoy the light reading.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002340--000-.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fear
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fear
http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/1000/1015.html
By the way, I am neither a Democrat nor Republican.
I am a Humanitarian.
And as for killing thousands of innocent people, go speak to the native Americans, whatever is left of them.
A new government report says CIA interrogators used an electric drill and a gun to scare an Al Qaeda prisoner into talking.
It say's gun, not dunking someone in water. In the above article.
Although water boarding is still torture.
Perhaps you should contact Sen. McCain and ask him what he thinks about torture, he knows first hand what its like to be tortured.
The government should launch a investigation due to the abuse of prisoners. Even thought these are prisoners and they have done a crime they should still be treated like human beings, not target practice. The government should file criminal charges agianst the members of the CIA, because they are abusing their authority. Even thought some may say that the CIA was just protecting our country, they wern't going by it the correct way. Im pretty sure there is other ways of getting criminals to talk. I think the CIA should have thought about what if they would have shot one of the criminals, they wouldn't have a prisoner, or anyone to interogate.
Oh, I had just noticed you said that this Mohammad was responsible for
for the deaths of over 3,000 innocent people.
I thought it was Bin Laden?
Who was it now?
Man oh Man, this really stinks to high heaven now doesn't it.
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/18usc23402340a2.htm
Two final points on the issue of specific intent: First, specific intent must be distinguished from motive. There is no exception under the statute permitting torture to be used for a "good reason." Thus, a defendant's motive (to protect national security, for example) is not relevant to the question whether he has acted with the requisite specific intent under the statute. See Cheek v. United States, 498 U.S. 192, 200-01 (1991). Second, specific intent to take a given action can be found even if the defendant will take the action only conditionally. Cf., e.g., Holloway v. United States, 526 U.S. 1, 11 (1999) ("[A] defendant may not negate a proscribed intent by requiring the victim to comply with a condition the defendant has no right to impose."). See also id. at 10-11 & nn. 9-12; Model Penal Code § 2.02(6). Thus, for example, the fact that a victim might have avoided being tortured by cooperating with the perpetrator would not make permissible actions otherwise constituting torture under the statute. Presumably that has frequently been the case with torture, but that fact does not make the practice of torture any less abhorrent or unlawful
No.
The United States should not launch an investigation.
Waste of National Resources in this critial time.
Why not put that money into the social security system.
one of the bloggers was trying to make a comparison between Ted Kennedy and Micahel Jackson. In reference about people dancing in the street for Michael jackson and not Ted Kennedy, or some such dribble.
You don't make comparisons between great people who served humanity in their own ways. You don't look at quanity, You look at quality.
Michael Jackson was an entertainer and Ted Kennedy was a Senator.
They were from two different ways of life, but I respect them equally for their love of humanity.
One thing I liked about Ted Kennedy is that he was a champion for the underprivilaged. Neither Ted Kennedy or Michael were perfect. all I want to remember is the good they did, not their mistakes.
You who are without sin,throw the first stone.
My grandmoter told me, if you can't say anthing good about someone, don't say anything.
This is Ted Kennedy's time to be mourned. RIP Senator Ted Kennedy.
August 26th, 2009 3:27 pm ET
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Oh, I had just noticed you said that this Mohammad was responsible for
for the deaths of over 3,000 innocent people.
I thought it was Bin Laden?
Who was it now?
Man oh Man, this really stinks to high heaven now doesn’t it.
August 26th, 2009 3:49 pm ET
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/18usc23402340a2.htm
Two final points on the issue of specific intent: First, specific intent must be distinguished from motive. There is no exception under the statute permitting torture to be used for a “good reason.” Thus, a defendant’s motive (to protect national security, for example) is not relevant to the question whether he has acted with the requisite specific intent under the statute. See Cheek v. United States, 498 U.S. 192, 200-01 (1991). Second, specific intent to take a given action can be found even if the defendant will take the action only conditionally. Cf., e.g., Holloway v. United States, 526 U.S. 1, 11 (1999) (”[A] defendant may not negate a proscribed intent by requiring the victim to comply with a condition the defendant has no right to impose.”). See also id. at 10-11 & nn. 9-12; Model Penal Code § 2.02(6). Thus, for example, the fact that a victim might have avoided being tortured by cooperating with the perpetrator would not make permissible actions otherwise constituting torture under the statute. Presumably that has frequently been the case with torture, but that fact does not make the practice of torture any less abhorrent or unlawful
Wideeyes,
as to your point of health care having being around since Cesar.
I do fail to see what he had to do with Germany's health care system.
the Kennedy it's the family of all the people in the world Ted man passionate man comprehensive man the humour man who proclaim the peace in the world the big reformer in health care than the GOP say no for their vote to senate in education for all in civic riht the poverty for him was unacceptable now he join his Brother's in the legend and who leave their name's everywhere in the world name the streets or of park now you be next to of god
Right now we should be more worried about the loss of our freedoms, than investigating the patriots who tried to keep our Country safe. Rather, we should be asking questions about the backgrounds of the "unofficail" advisers to the President. What I hear from their own lips and read in the books they write, is quite disturbing. Importantly, these advisers have never been investigated by the FBI or the CIA or approved by Congress. Please wake up America. You have more to lose than rights for terriorists. By the way, I abhore violence probably more than any one of you.
Yes I believe the goverment should investigate this matter. The person who decided to resort in a violent matter so be terminated, and possibly sentenced to jail time. If the investigator can't get to the criminal by playing mind games, and using reversed sociology then the shouldn't be allowed to terrorize or physically harm the suspect. It seem as if a employer of the government or a goverment official can get away with murder without it being invesigated or taken trial. This should definitely be investigated and the man this happened should take legal action and sue.
Will Dick tell us about the people that he had killed in secret jails around the world?? Dick has and is digging himself a huge hole he will never crawl out of!! We need everyone prosecuted torturers attorneys and especially Georgie boy and dickie!! Prosecute all of them!1
rich
I personally don't feel that this should even be an issue for us to discuss. The people who were interrogated are terrorists or associates who are trying to bring down America. What about all the innocent lives they caused America to lose? What about our soldiers whos lives are being lost fighting to keep us safe from these people? I feel that ways of interrogation that were used were justified and they helped save the lives of more innocent people. Do you really think that other countries who capture our soldiers care what they do to them? They don't have a display going on showing how bad their government treated detainees, and neither should we. What happened happened, if information was received and no lives were lost, just let it go!
After 9/11 we declared WAR on terrorism. As a combat Marine I'm well aware of the potential good intelegence can be to save lives and shorten the war.. It is my strong opinion a prisoner of terrorism has no rights and liables themself to this sort ot treatment when he or she signs up for his Jihad.
Mike M.
Bradenton Florida
yes they should
To Ines; You obviously have too much time on your hands. Get a life. Shift your skirt a bit, your righteous and pompous attitude is showing.
To Ines and wideeyes, maybe this will help you settle this...
Self-Defense- ∆ reasonably believes he is about to be attacked and may use reasonable force. (most states require retrieval if can be done before using deadly force, defense not available to initial aggressors, reasonable mistake allowed).
You'll notice that the self defense defense is not applicable to initial aggressors. Since Iraq and any of it's citizens never attacked us, that makes US the initial agressors. For someone to torture another and then attempt to use self defense as an excuse is just plain silly.
You will also notice the "reasonable force" segment of that. Torture isn't reasonabel by anyone's standards with more than two functioning brain cells.
Wideeyes..."Do you honestly think for one second that if we say please this thug who killed thousands of innocent people will comply with the CIA’s request?"
...>>>And yes, you are missing something. Nobody is saying we invite these guys over for tea and crumpets or a BBQ. That doesn't mean we have to threaten their families, and their mothers, and engage in acts that they do to make ourselves feel better. There are ways to track them and to keep them from listening in on our communications, of tracking their migrations and movements, and none of which involve us going over the line just because they've crossed it.
Foley of Idaho
Since you say "......There are ways to track them and to keep them from listening in on our communications, of tracking their migrations and movements, ...." and if it's true, then it begs the question....why aren't yout the CIA Director?
Wideeyes... that's a good question. I'd do a far better job.
[As quoted by James Foley]
"You’ll notice that the self defense defense is not applicable to initial aggressors. Since Iraq and any of it’s citizens never attacked us."
Just where is your source of information that limits imprisoned terrorists to just Iraq? Even if in Iraq, many terrorists of the Jihad are from other countries.
It's a good thing there are certain people, ( including me } that have put their life on the line and have done the dirty deeds so peoaple such as you can sit back in their chair of security not having to ever had to experience the real dark side of humanity or war.
Mike M.
and the Neeeerve of his [john McCain's] fmily crying like that for his safe return... what a bunch of sissies. >:)
lol
Wideeyes,
First you correct my English, ( which by the way you have misspelled plenty yourself )
then you attack me. How nice of you!
Still you didn't answer my question:
Did Mohammad have anything to do with 9/11 or was it Bin Laden?
If Mohammad confessed to being the instigator, did he do so after he was tortured or before?
Now, as far as we all had been told back in 2001 it was Bin Laden since he officially said so on a tape. Hence the idiotic war in Iraq.
I never have had any problem with the war in Afghanistan, since that is where Bin Laden was hiding at the time.
to James in Idaho:
I have no problem with self defense only with torture and trying to cover it up.
How would one hold a trial that was not in camera and, in any case, how would any punishment that may accrue be meted out without exposing the individual's identity? It isn't just the name of the people, but, that like with everyone there is a plethora of information freely available. Far too much information that can be misused or used for nefarious purposes. This is fundamentaly the same problem as with trying accused terrorists in state's (countries I mean) courts.
I think that the government should launch an investgation because that's basically violting rights on the people who are being interrogated. I mean come on you can't abuse people to get what you want that's just morally wrong. But, i bet you if they either had to go through it themselves or have a close family member go through it then they would see it different and stop what there doing. Just because there the CIA doesn't mean they could do what they please when they please that's just wrong and unfair. But, they could use abuse but they have to limit it because sometimes they do take it too far and that's where the government should look at and draw the line.
I think its a loony idea to investigate the CIA and its so-called abuses. If there are questions about its methods, why stop at the previous Administrations Tenure. Go back to its founding. And, why stop with the CIA? Lets look into everything that was going on during the Bush Administration. Where were these individuals when all the so called abuses were going on? This is a politically motivated move on the part of some ditch-diggers. Another good way to waste the Tax-Payers dollars and cover-up the present Administration's blatant abuses thats going on. An independent Voter.
Ines
I would have thought you would have been thankful for correcting your English, since it's not your mother tongue. Sorry I "...attacked...". I guess you should pull the covers over your head and hide. You wrote the comments, what did you expect, perfume and roses?
I, like any free human am appaled at torture. Although I refuse to accept (that) the sounds of an electric drill or the brandishing of a gun as the definition of torture. If you don't want to believe (this) Shiekh Mohammad killed thousands of innocent people, that's your choice. And after having read your ramblings re "...health care and Nazis" as some sort of explaination for accepting your reasoning, then I understand. And please don't try to explain your reasoning. You've already "dazzeled me with bs", you certainly didn't baffle me with brilliance.
I for one would like an investigation by an independent panel to find out IF there were any laws or human rights violated.
I will not stick my head in the sand like some and wish it away.
If there were violations then this needs to be addressed, period.
Mike M. wrote "Just where is your source of information that limits imprisoned terrorists to just Iraq? Even if in Iraq, many terrorists of the Jihad are from other countries."
I respond, "Ya, nice straw man. I never said the imprisoned suspects were all from Iraq, and in fact many are not, but have come from other places in defense of Iraq. Others have just coem to get props as martyrs. It is still not SELF defense, even when we are "Defending" another country. Self defense doesn't work by proxy. As well, retreval was already obtained; so, the self defense excuse is jsut that, an excuse."
Mike then strokes his own ego and says ... "It’s a good thing there are certain people, ( including me } that have put their life on the line and have done the dirty deeds so people such as you can sit back in their chair of security not having to ever had to experience the real dark side of humanity or war."
I respond... "Of course mike... I've never experienced that, therefor my opinion must be either false or diluted right. Hey, how 'bout this, I have experienced sexual abuse though... does that count as "the real dark side of humanity"? If your'e going to argue the point of experience,. make sure the person you're arguing with hasn't had even darker experiences. Dolt.
Hey, wideeyes, how 'bout I do a little bafling... mkay.
Torture, whether inflicted by the victim of a previous wrong or not, is always, still torture. If a little kid in school is constantly flooded with mockeries; that is torture [is as in ='s]. If a woman suffers years of emotional abuse; that is torture. If a man sufferes years of emotional abuse; that IS torture. And those are just words.
No, no, no my desperate and oblivious friend, these CIA bufoons went well beyond just words. They engaged in very real threats. The terrorists threatened us yes, and my what excellent company these CIA agents choose to keep. youre just out for revenge, not justice. Justice is what the Americna people want, not revenge. Revenge is for the feeble minded. Revenge is for the weak. Are you calling our soldiers and our CIA feeble and weak? If you support feeble minded and weak actions then you certainly do.
I'm shocked that you would insult the troops this way and the memoriy of those who died on 9/11.
Oh but wait Mike and wideeyes, I forgot... your'e special. The rules that apply to everyone else dont' apply to you. The jurisprudence and reasoning that are behind those rules also dont' apply to you, because you're both conservatives and republicans and therefor above the law.
Here's an idea... how about you both get off your high horses and consider that thee people are jsut that, people. Equal in every way to you. Equal. Your equals. Our equals. Equally offended when their laws are broken, people are killed and lands are invaded. Equal. Equally angry and equally as violent when it suits and/or moves them. Equal.
Maybe if Bush, the dummy, had treated them as equals in his thoughts, he would have had far less caualties and blood on his hands. As it stands, he was just like you. The people he tapped in to for these 'enhanced' [read heinous] interrogations were just like oyu.
begging the question... Just whose fault is it really that things are as bad for us in the world as they are?
Ya, I'll admit it, I'm baiting them a little 😉